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Post by chris on Sept 28, 2011 23:29:44 GMT -5
Playing arm chair GM for a moment.
I believe Francona and Theo both should stay. Can't blame them for the collapse. People will want to blame Theo for the Crawford and Lackey signings...but they were/are good signings. Lackey was never meant to be the #1 guy here, he was supposed to be a #3 starter behind Beckett and Lester. Everybody was saying the Sox had the best starting rotation in the majors at the start of the season. Crawford was a base stealing, OBP leadoff type guy, which should have been a great compliment to the lineup. They both had bad seasons, it happens. Lackey looked worse because his attitude and injuries to the starters. Can't blame Theo just because they had off years, there was no reason to believe they would. Francona is a great presence in a locker room like the Sox have. He has faith in the younger players, and has a personality that the veterans like. Much like Torre in NY, not much to managing a team full of talent. Just keep the calm and let the players do the rest....sadly, the players simply didn't get it done. Not his fault.
Depending on Papelbon's contract demands, I see him signing a long term deal. He still puts up solid numbers, as long as he isn't demanding an insane contact, he returns.
David Ortiz.....that's a tricky one. I believe the Sox will go hard after Prince Fielder as a DH, and use Ortiz as a fall back plan. If they don't get Fielder, expect a 2 year deal for Ortiz. If they do get Fielder, say good bye to the big guy.
This team played .700 baseball for most of the season, they have the talent. They just need to figure out why they collapsed, and what they need to do to stay calm in bad situations. They choked, plain and simple. Too much pressure. But hey, the Bruins collapsed two seasons ago and they clearly learned from it.
I do agree that conditioning and training need to be looked at. The medical staff needs to be seriously evaluated anyway, in light of situations like Ells last season. Why does it take a team of specialists to find a broken rib? Injuries happen, it's a part of sports. But the Sox have had too many injuries that can be linked to poor conditioning. That needs to be looked at seriously. It's not an excuse, every team has injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 4:19:22 GMT -5
Gotta resign Ellsbury too. And what about right field? I think Wake is probably done at this point. Is Scutaro's contract up as well?
As for Tito...I think he should stay for the same reasons you said. Theo needs to get back to developing proispects and stop trading them away (though the Gonzo trade was good, IMO).
Lackey's personal problems HAD to affect his season this year. They just have to hope he can pull it together next season. I can't judge him for the divorce like the radio nutjobs are doing...that's his personal life and people need to stay out of it.
I do wish we had a catcher who could throw out the occasional base stealer...
We also have to hope Crawford comes around. Not like he's tradeable at the $$'s they threw at him.
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Post by eddy on Sept 29, 2011 5:42:19 GMT -5
This team played .700 baseball for most of the season
You're never as good as when you're winning and never as bad as when you're losing. But the same team that collapsed in September also started the season 2-10. They may just not have the right mix of players. We'll see.
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Post by SeaBass on Sept 29, 2011 7:48:29 GMT -5
Hopefully thatwas the last choke from Papelpuke last night. He needs to go away!
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Post by chris on Sept 29, 2011 11:57:51 GMT -5
I'm torn on Papelbon. His numbers show that he is still one of the top closers in the game, a guy I'm not sure is easily replaced. However, he has a history of trying to be too fancy when it counts the most, and his attitude is complete garbage. If there is a scale of "team player", Pedroia would be on one end and Pap on the other.
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Post by Iceman on Sept 29, 2011 13:31:58 GMT -5
Hopefully thatwas the last choke from Papelpuke last night. He needs to go away! Agreed. I haven't liked that prick from day one. Let him go blow big games and dance in his underwear somewhere else.
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Post by SeaBass on Sept 29, 2011 14:05:59 GMT -5
Hopefully thatwas the last choke from Papelpuke last night. He needs to go away! Agreed. I haven't liked that prick from day one. Let him go blow big games and dance in his underwear somewhere else. I can't stand watching him pitch. Nothing like a 30 minute half inning....every time he pitches.
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Post by cirig on Sept 29, 2011 18:13:19 GMT -5
Can someone just pay some homeless guy $20 to throw Crawford from a balcony? He is fucking awful. I cringed when the Sox picked him up. He's a selfish, ignorant sack of shit, which was abundantly clear while he was in Tampa. Dumb, dumb fucking move Theo.
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Post by eddy on Sept 30, 2011 6:29:14 GMT -5
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Post by SeaBass on Sept 30, 2011 10:01:21 GMT -5
Francona officially out as skipper. Who will the get to replace him?
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Post by eddy on Sept 30, 2011 11:50:30 GMT -5
Tough call. Tito was the right guy for so many reasons - the biggest of which was to let the leaders lead and play loose. But when the team was relegated to having 1, maybe 2 guys that filled that role, he couldn't keep it together. Seems like they'd need someone with a take no prisoners attitude but I can't see someone ceding so much control to the front office. It'll be an interesting off season, that's for sure.
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Post by Iceman on Sept 30, 2011 11:53:53 GMT -5
Where's Grady Little these days?
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Post by SeaBass on Sept 30, 2011 11:57:59 GMT -5
Tough call. Tito was the right guy for so many reasons - the biggest of which was to let the leaders lead and play loose. But when the team was relegated to having 1, maybe 2 guys that filled that role, he couldn't keep it together. Seems like they'd need someone with a take no prisoners attitude but I can't see someone ceding so much control to the front office. It'll be an interesting off season, that's for sure. As long as it is not Lou Pinella
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Post by eddy on Sept 30, 2011 15:01:14 GMT -5
Tough call. Tito was the right guy for so many reasons - the biggest of which was to let the leaders lead and play loose. But when the team was relegated to having 1, maybe 2 guys that filled that role, he couldn't keep it together. Seems like they'd need someone with a take no prisoners attitude but I can't see someone ceding so much control to the front office. It'll be an interesting off season, that's for sure. As long as it is not Lou Pinella I know his name's been thrown around but I just can't imagine him in Boston.
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Post by chris on Sept 30, 2011 20:57:35 GMT -5
I don't expect the next manager to be a "big name". All of those types of managers are not managing for a reason...nobody wants them. Teams have chosen bench coaches, hitting coaches, and base coaches over these "big names" time and time again. I suspect it will happen again here too. Nobody could have predicted Tito being hired.
Reading between the lines from Tito's presser and Larry's presser. I am getting the feeling that Tito didn't like the front office interfering, and there are bigger rifts in the clubhouse than we suspect. He sounded frustrated with not only the way the season ended, but how the players responded and reacted. Sure Pedroia is going to bust his balls every day, but I don't see that kind of dedication from many of the other players. Say what we will about Millar, Damon, Muller, et al.....but those guys played with heart game in and game out. Those are the kind of guys you want in a club house. Not players who show up over weight and out of shape, collecting paychecks and not really showing any real heart.
I kind of lost some respect for Adrian Gonzales with his "God's will" comments. All though it was refreshing to finally hear an athlete blame God for a failure....I feel that he gets too much credit for good seasons. But nonetheless, God didn't make players go through the motions with no real care if they won or lost. Players that play for each other win, we saw it in 04 and with the Bruins. Not many teams win a championship when they don't deeply care for one another.
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Post by SeaBass on Oct 12, 2011 8:29:08 GMT -5
Looks like Theo is now a Cubbie....good luck with that one.
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Post by SeaBass on Oct 12, 2011 8:29:38 GMT -5
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Post by Iceman on Oct 12, 2011 9:26:09 GMT -5
So, as it stands now, the Sox have no manager, no GM and a clubhouse full of drunks, fried chicken eating vidiots. Gonna be an interesting season next year.
"I don't care too much for money, money can't buy me love."
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Post by SeaBass on Oct 12, 2011 11:36:30 GMT -5
I am waiting for a player to speak out on this whole locker room thing. Someone with big enoug balls to tell us all the truth.
I am surprised that Varitek would not have said anything to the KFC pitchers.
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Post by SeaBass on Oct 12, 2011 11:36:58 GMT -5
Would this article have been written if the Sox were still playing?
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Post by Iceman on Oct 12, 2011 11:45:19 GMT -5
Would this article have been written if the Sox were still playing? Probably not.
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Post by chris on Oct 12, 2011 19:13:03 GMT -5
Would this article have been written if the Sox were still playing? Yes, but it would have had a different spin. Just like the whole "shots of Jack" stories that broke after the 04 World Series. Then it sounded like a "they are such a tight team" story. Had they lost to the Yankees, the story would have read "Red Sox do shots of Jack in locker room during collapse against the Yankees.". Tim Thomas makes incredible saves in route to a Stanley Cup victory.....had they lost in ANY round, it would have been "Tim Thomas can't carry them to a Cup because he plays so out of position all the time." When they lose he's "floppy"....when they win he's the greatest goalie on the planet. Winning and losing changes perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 12:15:46 GMT -5
Looks like Theo is now a Cubbie....good luck with that one. Think Nomar will be there to give him a tour of the city??
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Post by chris on Oct 13, 2011 18:22:42 GMT -5
Looks like Theo is now a Cubbie....good luck with that one. Think Nomar will be there to give him a tour of the city?? Did you catch Nomar on ESPN talking about the "pattern" the Red Sox have of trashing ex-employees after they leave? It was standard stuff he's said before, citing himself, Mo, Roger, so on and so on. It wasn't as much as what he said, because there was nothing really untrue about what he said. I felt it was strange because we all just went through this "Nomar love-fest" last year with Nomar signing that one day contract to retire a Red Sox...and all was forgiven. I agree it's shitty to drag someone's name through the mud, there was no need for a "team source" to talk about Tito's "drug addiction" and whatnot. They leave, wish them well and move on.
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Post by chris on Oct 13, 2011 18:27:05 GMT -5
I think the best thing that will happen through all this is that the pink-hat "Red Sox Nation" douchebags will finally get off the wagon. They made being a Sox fan embarrassing.
No matter what I think of some of Theo's bad signings or trades.....or how many times I questioned Tito's decision to stick with a starter too long, or put too much faith in an aging player who is no longer delivering. These guys brought us TWO World Series victories. For that I will ALWAYS be grateful. We lived the long suffering decades of failure and near misses. These guys helped make the Sox "the" team. A contender, a winner, and brought us a bunch of young, bright stars. Sadly, they also brought us an overflowing bandwagon of know-nothings who turned Fenway into a fucking singalong.
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Post by eddy on Oct 13, 2011 18:32:57 GMT -5
Think Nomar will be there to give him a tour of the city?? Did you catch Nomar on ESPN talking about the "pattern" the Red Sox have of trashing ex-employees after they leave? It was standard stuff he's said before, citing himself, Mo, Roger, so on and so on. It wasn't as much as what he said, because there was nothing really untrue about what he said. I felt it was strange because we all just went through this "Nomar love-fest" last year with Nomar signing that one day contract to retire a Red Sox...and all was forgiven. I agree it's shitty to drag someone's name through the mud, there was no need for a "team source" to talk about Tito's "drug addiction" and whatnot. They leave, wish them well and move on. Just watch when Theo leaves. There will be a stories about him being a dog fucker or something. If he does indeed go to the Cubs and they win a WS, he'll have cemented himself a place in the HOF
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Post by SeaBass on Oct 14, 2011 8:27:03 GMT -5
Think Nomar will be there to give him a tour of the city?? Did you catch Nomar on ESPN talking about the "pattern" the Red Sox have of trashing ex-employees after they leave? It was standard stuff he's said before, citing himself, Mo, Roger, so on and so on. It wasn't as much as what he said, because there was nothing really untrue about what he said. I felt it was strange because we all just went through this "Nomar love-fest" last year with Nomar signing that one day contract to retire a Red Sox...and all was forgiven. I agree it's shitty to drag someone's name through the mud, there was no need for a "team source" to talk about Tito's "drug addiction" and whatnot. They leave, wish them well and move on. I find it funny that Tito's drug addiction didn't hurt the team when they were 80-41...it only hurt the team in September
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Post by crafar01 on Oct 14, 2011 9:33:43 GMT -5
I think the best thing that will happen through all this is that the pink-hat "Red Sox Nation" douchebags will finally get off the wagon. They made being a Sox fan embarrassing. Unfortunately though, the 'pink hat' attention will shift to the Bruins...at least for awhile. A friend was telling me that there's been all kinds of Bruin/hockey talk where they work this year and there had never been any at all before - zero, zip, nada. Ticket prices are through the roof, Bruins stickers, shirts and hats are now everywhere. It's no different than the Pudtriot fans that came out of the woodwork after they started winning. Baseball is my third sport behind hockey and football, so all the Sox and Patriot bandwagoners didn't bother me as much. The Bruins are a different story. Many of us here have suffered through some miserable shit to see them win a Cup and now all these other dicks get to decide that they're suddenly huge Bruins fans overnight? Fuck them, if there's anything I can't stand, it's a frontrunner.
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Post by chris on Oct 14, 2011 18:27:35 GMT -5
I'm kind of lucky living in Florida....NOBODY cares about hockey. When the Pats won I didn't really have to deal with a lot of the bandwagon fans, but when the Sox won they came out of the wood work. I figure there won't be too much of that with the Bruins....thank God, because down here nobody knows dick about hockey. But that's why I didn't get my old spoked B tattoo touched up when I got my Cup tattoo. I was going to originally...the artist is already working on my leg with black and gold, might as well touch up my old tat. But I decided not to, that way you can see the difference between my old tattoo and my new one.
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Post by Iceman on Oct 25, 2011 15:32:59 GMT -5
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